Damn... this book is tough.No, not the concepts (they're actually explained fairly well) - but the exhaustive references in the footnotes.
While the impressions left from the text are a bit too much to list in one post (or whole blog site for that matter) - one simple example has stayed on my mind.
In the above image, what's the answer?(Most people would assume an answer even before the question is asked.)
A triangle? Maybe - If I asked,"What shape is likely to come next?".
Five? Maybe - If the question is "How many objects are in the image?".
Two? Again, maybe. If the question is, "How many shapes are in the image?".
This example could be used to illustrate many things. I think I'll refer to it later in dealing with other problems.
But the Jaynesian theories made me think of another book which breaks down the state of mind of civilizations dealing with beliefs, mythologies or religions.Frank Yerby's fictional history of Judas My Brother is filled with a great inventory of sources and references.
Will these books shake your faith? Nope, if it could be shaken by opposition or probing - you probably never really had it anyway.
Will it (or they) shake your reliance on the Church organization? Maybe, but for many... this might be in one's best interest.
Does it diminish the "Magic" of faith? Nope, it (they) can't even come close to explaining such phenomena away. In fact, they make such situations seem even more real.
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Does it diminish the "Magic" of faith? Nope, it (they) can't even come close to explaining such phenomena away. In fact, they make such situations seem even more real.
What phenomena are you referring to John?
we had a conversational fragment a borning over at Cobbski's - which may have some relevance to this post. When people start talking about "faith" - I'm always very curious to know EXACTLY what it is that they're professing an uncritical belief in? F'zample, Cobb's trumpeting of Cardinal Neuhaus's pompous assertion about the primacy and divinity of "reason". Yeah, ok, whatever....., I got infinitely more serious stock in the primacy and divinity of sleep - and that there mundane, universal, experience set is more mysterious - and yet more routine and known to everyone and their cousin - than anything else we might care to discuss.
You could say I have unshakeable faith in the reality, power, and mystery of sleep....,
Anybody who wants to talk to me authoritatively about the sacred, the afterlife, and the spiritual ANYTHING - better bring an A-Game and shattering explanatory understanding of sleep - or otherwise they need to STFU and go on about their jive hustling beeswax - cause from where I sit - they sound silly in the extreme.
It is in large measure the bluntness, directness and ordinariness of what Jaynes engages - that makes his to date unrebutted explanation of consciousness so immensely powerful and persuasive. Frankly, after the way Jaynes puts it down, everything else is merely conversation...,
I never associated magic with faith albeit the discernment between rekligion and animism are extant if you asked me
@ CNu - Dreams, visions and voices... even while awake.
@ RawDawg - A lot of people feel that there are magical forces at work in the Universe. But we only call them magic because we have no other explanation.
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