Those who first came to America from Europe never had a problem with oppression - their only problem was with being oppressed.
As soon as those newly arrived became those in power their only goal has been to keep others from having the same freedoms to which many had grown accustomed.
Many former proles became the new aristocrats.
Those who traveled in third class were processed through Ellis Island.
Of the 12 million who were processed - only 2 percent were denied entry due to contagious disease or any other factor which would have caused them to become a burden to the government.
Even the Irish are having problems becoming American citizens.
http://www.irishvoices.blogspot.com/
There are currently over 881,000 citizens of African origin now living in the US.
The quota for those seeking entrance from Africa now stands at 1100 persons per year (Excluding Egypt).
These African immigrants outperform all other immigrants groups when it comes to educational attainment.
48.9% hold a college degree (almost twice the number of native-born whites) and 19.4% hold at least a Masters Degree (more than twice the number of native-born whites).
But many from south of the border were allowed to bypass such laws in a sort of wink-wink arrangement with those given the task of enforcement as long as it benefited American companies.
http://www.therealnews.com/t2/
NAFTA benefited American corporations but harmed small American companies and workers as well as causing the conditions under which most from south of the border were forced to come to the US.
By saying that I am against the recent race-specific laws of Arizona but in favor of better enforcement of our current immigration laws - I see no conflict.
This is seen in countries where refugees have overwhelmed the indigenous population or in ghettos which have had a rapid and overwhelming change in demographics.
The more natural ebb and flow of those rising and falling in class is too much for the prevailing traditions, institutions or cultures to peaceably absorb.
I'm not saying that people should not be allowed to immigrate to the US.
(In fact, such immigration has always been the catalyst for the growth and evolution of American society.)
What I'm saying is that those who break the laws are in no way justified in demanding that new laws be enacted to accommodate their disregard for our current laws.
I'll give anyone almost anything they may need - I just don't like it when someone tries to take the same from me.
(If I see a hungry man on the street - I'll buy him lunch and give him a few extra bucks. If the same guy assumes that what is mine belongs to him and tries to rob me - I'll give him a few extra buckshot in the face.)
Sure, immigrants may have an argument in favor of more rights - but they are no position to demand them.
Co-sign! Pero, it is too late for Los Southern Cal. I think your opinion is that of the overwhelming majority. What is your position on something more convoluted like the Dream Act?
ReplyDeleteOh, I see. This is related to a prior post.
ReplyDeleteI would agree that there must be immigration laws and that those laws must be enforced. I completely dissagree with our current laws and the general culture that is advocating for enforcement at present.
ReplyDeleteIt is so cost prohibitive to enter the US legally that those who are most in need have no chance. Those with money and education, which is what we currently use to sift out potential immigrants, already have more options and opportunity; sure we like people with money and education, but we do need low wage workers for low skilled jobs and those people NEED opportunity that largely will never be available to them in their native lands.
As to the current culture supporting immigration despite the facts as to how many other ethnicities immigrate, the opponents inreal life only picture or care about Latinos. Talk to the vast majority of those opposing immigration long enough and it WILL get to culture and language which are huge red flags as to the true concern... and that concern has race (culture) at its root. I am against opposing immigrants on the grounds of color, culture, or money.
Black J
ReplyDeleteA dedication - schweeet! Ta! I'm not sure this is a question of class, I think the historical framing might be us/them, citizen/migrant. Class as much as race have nothing and everything to do with it.
At least you're open about your protectionism but in this case I think you miss the value of what those who would have been made citizens (us) by the Dream Act. It was aimed at qualified people - some of whom make up some of those stats you listed on Africans. The Dream Act makes good economic sense to me.
People don't overstay because they want to then demand a right. Living in the West as a student is a hard life and there are so many reasons why people overstay - sometimes through no fault of their own. If someone gets kicked out of the U.S they have a mark in their passport that can be for up to 7 years and that then makes it harder for someone to travel to other countries requiring visas even if they just wanted to go on holiday or on a work assignment. I know someone who had trouble applying for a home loan because of a stamp in their passport. The ripple effect on the other areas of one's life, is not right.
To me your support of the Dream Act failing suggests that it isn't blatantly discriminatory to let qualified people become citizens but race-specific laws proposed in Arizona are discriminatory. Am I right? If so, IMO that's preventing positive discrimination (i.e to pick the talented the country needs) and that is wrong.
Why are you so uncomfortable with a qualified nurse being allowed the offer of citizenship in America but you oppose that suspected illegal migrants from Mexico can be identified and sent back? That is the crux of the matter.
How about all that are here be forced to naturalize and how many we count determines how long the rest have to wait to come in.
ReplyDeleteIn essence if there are 5 million here already we get them counted and SSN#. Then we set up a quota with Mexico but since we have 5 million and they probably will let 100k in a year then you have 50 years before the quota is enacted. That way those who are in get to be citizens after taking the proper tests and those who aren't are just assed out.
We can concentrate on building a stronger border and settle the whole problem right away. Those are not naturalized within a one year period will be deported regardless of with child. So that will force everyone to become naturalized and end this whole topic in about 5 years.
No one is entitled but telling people to go back now is absurd logistically and morally.
You know part of me feels like fuck all these immigrant mofos. Here in Southern Cal, we've been so overrun with legal and illegal immigrants I'm tired of them.
ReplyDeleteI mean it hasn't been just an infusion of different ethnicities into the overall mix, it's been a Got damn, full on takeover. I mean large parts of what used to be pasty-ass, White, Orange County have become fully Hispanic in an incredibly short period of time and all the San Gabriel Valley - a huge area of mostly middle class communities - is now overwhelmingly Asian. In fact, in some parts of the San Gabriel Valley, if you didn't know you were in the US, you would think you were in fucking Korea, cause all their signs and shit are in their native language.
So Brohammas is right. A large part of the opposition to immigration is based on race and culture, but I'm not sure some of these folks don't have a legitimate beef.
Now I grew up with all flavors of people, including the ones mentioned above, so on an individual basis I'm cool with them. But Got damn I have to say the influx has been so massive it's overwhelming.
And this is where I think a lot of people who are not the usual suspects against immigration start to develop feelings against immigration as well. When you feel like you're being overwhelmed and overtaken, it definitely breeds a certain amount anxiousness combined with possible ignorance of another culture and increasingly scarce resources, this is a fertile ground for ill feelings. A parallel might be in the Northern United States when large amounts of Blacks migrated to the Northern states in large numbers. There were similar issues in some White communities feeling overwhelmed.
How they immigrate is an issue too. As I mentioned above, some areas in San Gabriel you feel like you in Asia. This insular existence and seeming lack of desire to integrate into the larger society is very off-putting to some of us and borderline hostile. I'm mean why the fuck come to the US if you just trying to live amongst your own and setup a mini Korea in the states. And don't get me started on a lot of these immigrants that bring their own fucking prejudicial views of Blacks with them as well. Of course the manner in which they choose to live once here is their right, but it breeds feelings like I'm expressing here.
So, I think the combination of the massive influx and sense of being overwhelmed, combined with the impression that they here to just setup little versions of their native countries in the US (versions that mainstream Americans aren't particularly welcome in)and increasingly scarce resources help to fuel some of the anti-immigration feelings in the country.
So I say fuck all them immigrants!
DPizz,
ReplyDeleteI have heard exactly your argument of anti-assimilation beef... but directed toward black people. "Why do they all sit at the same table? Why do they hate us?" Lock the doors there is a whole group of them!"
Immigration, especially at this scale is surely riddled with issues, most of which are tough to adjust to, but it all seems a bit hypocritical when we get rigid in our defanition of what an American is (us being a historically immigrant nation), and complain that when the latest wave doesn't fit what we think is American we get upset.
American is defined by our govt. and the mix of culture that evolves from free enterprise and free association.
Any time an individual or group is forced to advocate for themselves, as blacks, Irish, Italians, and WASPS have, they run the risk of winning and thereafter becoming part of the problem that the next group has to fight against.
Lets not become guilty of the wrongs we oppose in others.
Excellent, excellent post John!!!
ReplyDeleteAll talk of "economics" and "growth" is moot in the face of the stark, objective declines in availability of the energy on which the infrastructure of "four times per capita consumption" that is the quintessence of America's non-negotiable way of life - and its irresistible draw for aspiring others.
ReplyDeleteBottom line, that thermodynamic fact is on a collision course with human killer-ape genetics and the inevitable result - now only barely being felt in American politics - is going to become a tidal wave of violent action.