Some would argue that having discussions about esoteric matters is a waste of time.Some would say that knowing more than just sports scores and Pop Culture is just being pedantic.
Some would say that having a vocabulary beyond that of the SAT study guide is just being pretentious, loquacious and verbose.
So what's the use of having knowledge that few others can understand?
After helping my young cousins with their homework, my young cousins often return home with "C's" or "D's" and confused.
My next step is then to return the homework to the teacher with the sited (I know it's "Cited", but the references are usually to Web "sites".) references for him/her to reread.
Most of the time the teacher ends up being taught something that wasn't in the book by my young cousins and is then given an "A".
After such exercises, my young cousins ask why it is that they always have to know more than what is written within his textbooks.
I then ask, "Is it better to get an "A" or to know the material?".
"To get an "A".", is the usual reply.
Then I explain that the "A" is not transferable but that the knowledge is universal.
So why read about what few others understand if one is never expected to use such knowledge?
Well, it's exercise.
Having to think increases ones ability to think.
It's like lifting weights with your brain.
But my I.Q. has to be lower today than it was just one month ago.
Being in the mist of running nightclubs - there is little reason for me to know more than what's written about in the USA Today or what is shown on ESPN, E!, or VH1.
But if I were to be given an IQ test today - I'm sure that my currently used pool of knowledge would register somewhere on the ascending side of the above chart.
I'm sure that my ability to think in the tested manner would have suffered.
I'm sure that I would have a much lower measurable I.Q..
So what does one do?
Much the same as going from an active day of doing construction to a passive day of socialization - I would need to exercise.
I would need to keep theories, concepts or ideas fresh in my mind.
I would need to read about about things which I'd never even thought about.
I would need to asked stupid questions in order to get smart answers.
In thinking about the effect of my current environment - I have even more doubts about the accuracy of I.Q. tests.
What is it that they are supposed to measure anyway?
Originally, they were intended to measure areas where children struggled with curricular assimilation; After the middle of the 19th century, industrialization in America and western Europe forced a growing demand for universal public schooling as the means by which children could be taught the skills and values desired by industry. It was in this industrially oriented educational climate that the French minister of education Alfred Binet, director of the psychology laboratory at the Sorbonne, developed a testing procedure capable of identifying students in need of special schooling. The task as defined was essentially a technical one, and Binet approached it in a straightforward practical fashion. He amassed hundreds of questions drawn from the school curriculum and covering a broad range of difficulty.
ReplyDeleteHis basic idea was to design a test which could be given to children of varying ages and on which children at a given age or grade level would do either well or poorly - depending on whether they were already doing well or poorly in school. Preliminary versions of the test were given to small groups of children whose scores were compared with their teachers ratings of classroom performance. In the process, items were added or deleted in order to bring about the closest possible correspondence between test performance and educational age norms.
In its final form, Binet's test provided an index of scholastic performance based on the prevailing standard of scholastic success. In other words, scores on his test generally correlated with the ratings assigned by French teachers in the classrooms of his day. By using teachers judgements of classroom performance as the standard by which his test was validated, Binet established a practical basis for its use as a predictor of success in the school system. Because his aim had been to identify children who required special schooling, he did not require, nor did he assert, a theory or definition of intelligence. Moreover, he did not make a distinction between acquired or congenital feeblemindedness and he never argued that poor performance on his test was a sign of innate mental inferiority. On the contrary, he sternly rebuked his contemporaries who contended that intelligence is a fixed quantity that cannot be augmented.
If you asked a boxer why he spars he would say for boxing and so on for a farmer. In other words there is a end product produced. Now if we say all these things were the main practices to the end goal we get it. If the person says they learn ballet for better balance on a basketball court you again would say OK.
ReplyDeleteThe only time it's deemed a waste of time is when someone does it and there isn't any goal. They aren't trying to solve anything, they aren't trying to build anything, they aren't trying to influence anything or anyone. If a tool or skill in it's purest form is to be used for a real benefit and the person decides to accumulate them for nothing more than practice why wouldn't someone think it's a waste.
Einstein used his knowledge to advance society right? So in all fields of learning something is expected to be produced. Even the sage or the oracle collects knowledge to pass to those who seek their advice. Nowadays people just know things for nothing other than to know them and regurgitate them for social points. There is no advancement of anything or anyone just the advancement of the money the author collected from these data collectors paying for a book to discuss and take pride in knowing something so obscure the public could care less.
On the IQ front I am sure that's why you write a blog to think about more than how much Blue Agave Patron was sold tonight.
But even you use your knowledge on a blog to enlighten as you and I could've sat down dealing with the masses and been handsomely rewarded for not being stupid.
If a tool or skill in it's purest form is to be used for a real benefit and the person decides to accumulate them for nothing more than practice why wouldn't someone think it's a waste.
ReplyDeleteThe use of tools and the practice of skills are indispensable requirements for psychological development and individuation.
What could be more important Freeman - than that one acquire a soul? By any means necessary....,
those who only know pop culture would not call you pedantic, they dont know that word.
ReplyDeleteThe more you know, about more things, the more accurately you can interpret and understand the world.
If knowlede was only usefulas a means to an end, the renaissance would have never happened, alexandria would have never had a great library, pyramids woud not exist, etc etc.
iq tests are a measure of your acculturated knowledge and your ability to apply knowledge or function within the society giving the test.
@CNU - How can the rule be different for kids than it is for adults. If a kid knew a lot of things you expect from them right? People anticipate what are they going to do with this knowledge right? How can anyone say learning for learning sake as an adult doesn't carry expectations of something tangible being built?
ReplyDeletePsychological development and individualization aside what are you going to do with all this knowledge? Talk to other people and critique those who decide to apply.
Yes acquiring a soul is great and you should get that but what about using the knowledge to build something. Is the acquiring knowledge, skills and know how a personal pursuit or did someone put out the knowledge for you to learn from them and build upon it.
How can the rule be different for kids than it is for adults.
ReplyDeleteumm..., because a kid's "job" is simply to grow, develop, and learn?
If a kid knew a lot of things you expect from them right?
yes..,
People anticipate what are they going to do with this knowledge right?
How can anyone say learning for learning sake as an adult doesn't carry expectations of something tangible being built?
umm..., because as far back as you care to trace, there have been monastaries and convents and other enclaves of people dedicated nearly exclusively to individuation and the development of souls?
Psychological development and individualization aside what are you going to do with all this knowledge? Talk to other people and critique those who decide to apply.
become the primary reservoir of culture and learning capable of surviving the inevitable collapse of status-seeking humans "doing things" with their purposeful knowledge?
Yes acquiring a soul is great and you should get that but what about using the knowledge to build something. Is the acquiring knowledge, skills and know how a personal pursuit or did someone put out the knowledge for you to learn from them and build upon it.
Some would argue that having discussions about esoteric matters is a waste of time. Some would say that having a vocabulary beyond that of the SAT study guide is just being pretentious, loquatios and verbose. So what's the use of having knowledge that few others can understand? So why read about what few others understand if one is never expected to use such knowledge? Well, it's exercise. Having to think increases ones ability to think. It's like lifting weights with your brain.
What is true of the individual, is exponentially more important, substantial, and true of the collective. The cultural capacity to "do" is directly proportional to the functional capacity to "be". These perennial reservoirs of "being" for "being's sake" are perhaps the.most.important. artifacts of human cultural development, by analogy, the equivalent of "honey" in a beehive.
@CNU - OK who nominated anyone to become this reservoir of knowledge or is it something that someone chooses on their own. Like your monastery example it's part of their charter to do this but what about your average person. Who or what are they collecting it for? To preserve or to become a self-appointed oracle.
ReplyDeleteWell if this data collector or oracle has the answers to survive the inevitable collapse why aren't they preventing the collapse by supplying the knowledge or influencing people to a more beneficial end. Why would they hold onto it so they can be the smart guy at the end saying I told you so!
Even bees make honey to survive the winter it's just not stored up for the hell of it!
Well if this data collector or oracle has the answers to survive the inevitable collapse why aren't they preventing the collapse by supplying the knowledge or influencing people to a more beneficial end.
ReplyDeleteBecause status-seeking human activity leads to predictable and inevitable ends - and has done so many, many times before.
Even bees make honey to survive the winter it's just not stored up for the hell of it!
Precisely..., and among uncle John's original kwestins were the following; So what's the use of having knowledge that few others can understand? So why read about what few others understand if one is never expected to use such knowledge?
As written in the Gospel of Thomas; 18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."
OK status seeking aside why wouldn't the same person build a alternate group or reality to bring about a different end. I'm having a hard time understanding why someone with the cure sits on it and watches people die.
ReplyDeleteThe bee example is like the clergy who hold information. Again it's not one guy but a group. People are not part of these groups what are they doing saving it for a reality they probably will never get to see in their lifetime? Do you think these oracles are passing the information down to another generation? Did they write a book of answers? Or is it a form of paranoia that makes them run up to the hills like a hermit?
OK status seeking aside why wouldn't the same person build a alternate group or reality to bring about a different end. I'm having a hard time understanding why someone with the cure sits on it and watches people die.
ReplyDeleteI'm genuinely sorry to have to break it to you brah, but people HAVE TO DIE and this time on a vastly more massive scale than during any previous go-round. That's the nature of the game in which our species has been embarked from time immemorial...,
Think about it.
Is there a single culture in the world that you know of, that has enjoyed a continuous run since its incept date?
Olmec, Pharaonic, Aztec, Mayan, Khmer, Indus, Easter Island, Minoan, Greek, Roman......,
Seriously?
We're no different than yeast in our collective proclivities, perhaps even less capable of responding correctly and intelligently than yeast due to our deep instinctual conditioning around the status-seeking instinct. i.e., these unteachable, unevolved and possibly unevolvible humans - will invest their last dime in a centimeter more of tailfeather with which to sport in front of those whom they seek to "impress".
sheeeeiiiiiitttt..........,
anything that stupid needs to collapse and cull from time to time so as to not permanently destroy the Ur-cradle sustaining all life.
The bee example is like the clergy who hold information. Again it's not one guy but a group. People are not part of these groups what are they doing saving it for a reality they probably will never get to see in their lifetime?
Clergy don't hold shit.
Esoteric cultures of competency, however, do.
and to answer your question, yes.
Do you think these oracles are passing the information down to another generation? Did they write a book of answers?
As have many before them - and - both questions and answers are encrypted and must be deciphered by "deserving" heirs to the legacy.
Or is it a form of paranoia that makes them run up to the hills like a hermit?
Least paranoid muhphuggahs on the face of the earth..., babysitting the rest of these humans across the millenia.
LOL I'm not so worried about the rise and fall of civilizations that fail to adapt and morph. I know vanity has replaced tangible growth so you have no argument with me about basing a society and culture simply off it's ability to consume.
ReplyDeleteWell let me ask this question as this conversation has morphed...
A babysitter only job in life is to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. A person learns to take care of themselves by experiences and education. Now if that's the case why would someone hold information and only give it to the deserving when their burden is to what you call babysit society.
So the oracles creates their own problems by hoarding. Picking "the chosen" limits implementation and deciding not to do public works either through books or even a medical journal retards even expert advancement of the theory. So in the end we have a evil genius laughing at society's downfall and thus becoming what it sees current society's critical flaw. The inability to educate,inform and disseminate timely information for the betterment of society. Holding onto archaic fraternal traditions that wait for Jesus to rise from their ranks.
In the end they probably don't want to let the information out because they would lose their own personal status seeking ego driven motives of being the oracle. How is the person who holds onto this information as a self appointed guardian any different from the person who buys a flashy car and wants to be respected for having it.
As you said: Because status-seeking human activity leads to predictable and inevitable ends - and has done so many, many times before.
A babysitter only job in life is to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. A person learns to take care of themselves by experiences and education. Now if that's the case why would someone hold information and only give it to the deserving when their burden is to what you call babysit society.
ReplyDeleteMy bad. Should've said "babysit the essential knowledge and useful emanations of these humans" for use by future generations. Not babysit the current generation or future generations of these humans.
So the oracles creates their own problems by hoarding. Picking "the chosen" limits implementation and deciding not to do public works either through books or even a medical journal retards even expert advancement of the theory.
Not really.
Think of them as you might an appendix.
Esoteric circles of humanity are surrounded and supported by mesoteric circles who know and support but don't practice, and exoteric circles who believe and support, but neither know or practice, simply take the exercise on faith. At least that's the way it's done in orthodox Christendom, by Bhuddists, Vedantists, orthodox Jews, and within Islam.
So in the end we have a evil genius laughing at society's downfall and thus becoming what it sees current society's critical flaw. The inability to educate,inform and disseminate timely information for the betterment of society. Holding onto archaic fraternal traditions that wait for Jesus to rise from their ranks.
lol,
Ain't nobody stopping you from becoming either a stellar physicist, world class martial artist, or saint..., nobody that is, but y.o.u.
In the end they probably don't want to let the information out because they would lose their own personal status seeking ego driven motives of being the oracle. How is the person who holds onto this information as a self appointed guardian any different from the person who buys a flashy car and wants to be respected for having it.
um, um, um...., chastity, poverty, asceticism, discipline.
As you said: Because status-seeking human activity leads to predictable and inevitable ends - and has done so many, many times before.
I'm glad they're there. Sustains meaning and evolutionary possibility where there would otherwise be none - sucked under as it were by Dark Ages which follow on every single such collapse.
LMBAO @ "babysit the essential knowledge and useful emanations of these humans" - as one of those humans I want to give a sarcastic thank you for bringing them to my attention.
ReplyDelete"Ain't nobody stopping you from becoming either a stellar physicist, world class martial artist, or saint..., nobody that is, but y.o.u." - Don't worry I don't believe in Casper or The MAN I just find the angles presented entertaining.
As how can someone collect all this knowledge from "these humans" because of all their vanity and world ending ways but at the same time feel more righteous that they are not engaging in the same practices of Vanity but from being the Oracle.
"I'm glad they're there." - I'm NOT, as self appointed as they are they inhibit human growth by deciding who should be entrusted with this information. Just because no one is stopping me from being a happy mouse in a maze doesn't mean they aren't inhibiting society as a whole from evolving.
Overall from what I gather from the original post. Although accumulating knowledge is as said a mental exercise without it's application it becomes a nerdy misers aspiration and egotistical pursuit. To be the Last Samurai, or the Last Mohican or the entrusted Oracle is just as Vanity driven as the dummies they are hoarding it from and the future dummies they hope to enlighten. So at the end of the Oracle's life he'll die probably knowing everything but sharing nothing because Jesus never arrived and he probably didn't kiss his ring to get access to the information in the first place.
they're merely humble farmers tending to the longterm harvest from the lord's wayward "crops/flocks"
ReplyDelete{whichever term you happen to prefer}
There was a scene in the movie, Slumdog millionaire, where the guy is interrogated over how it could know the answers and implied he was to stupid. He then asked them several questions they couldn't answer, but that any kid in the slum could.
ReplyDelete