Fake tiddies and all - Tamron Hall is a baad b----.But what made Ms Hall (and the litany of other Black newscasters) possible was the changing perception of Blacks.
Not just by those of a certain demographic - but a changing view of Blacks themselves.
There was once a time when a Black man wouldn't believe anything was true unless someone from a certain demographic told them so.
The Black way (method, concept or opinion) was viewed by most as being inferior.
But what changed all this.
Well... there is no one thing in particular - only seminal moments which seemed to change the direction of the social pendulum.
In the future, many will point to the election of Barack Obama as one of these moments.If a Black man with an odd name could actually accomplish the impossible (being elected POTUS) - how much more could Blacks accomplish that was possible?
Fat, Black, poor, ugly, abused and from the South - Oprah never should have become OPRAH.When the "O" announced her retirement - networks and syndicators began to scramble to find her replacement.
Who was the last person to have this big an impact on an entire time slot of the popular media?
Johnny Carson?
Cosby playing a doctor on television was seen a a false representation of Blacks - While a Black Surgeon general is now seen as something to be expected.
The Sunday news shows were once filled with only a certain demographic with the occasional guest expected to only be expert in topics concerning their own ethnic group (Jessie, Al Sharpton, ...).Today, Donna Brazile goes up against the big boys on any topic.
Was I mad when LarryKing stated that his son said that he wanted to be Black because "Black people were cool"?
Was I mad when LarryKing stated that his son said that he wanted to be Black because "Black people were cool"?Hell no.
To many from the current generation - everything and everyone they see has a Black face on it.
(Even the Republican Party)
If the current perception of Blacks is this high from those of other groups - how much more will it influence the perception of young Blacks concerning themselves?
With this new "can do" mentality - won't the next generation ignore all of the "only white people can do/have/know that" nonsense usually passed from one generation to the next?
Armed with this mentality and the proper preparation - won't the next generation be better off than those who chose to settle for the scraps given them by those they served?
People can whine about the effect Obama has had on the lives of Blacks all they want.
But this thinking is short sighted.
The real question is, "How will the election of Obama effect those from future generations?"
Uncle John, I think the imagistic analysis risks conflation of correlation with causation.
ReplyDeleteI would ask you to consider a timeline of images of Black men in 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, and today - and think about what was going on in the underlying economy and Black body politic at each of those points in time.
I would also ask you to consider very deeply the changes that have taken place in the knowledge, skill, ability of folks living in our communities at those various points in time, i.e., the operational capabilities on the ground.
I would ask you to give especially intensive consideration to the transition taking place between 1960-1980
imoho - the election of Obama is a symptom or an effect of a much longer term project begun generations ago. But the images currently being depicted don't correlate particularly well with the actual operational capabilities existing on the ground in the communities in which the present generation of children currently live and learn.
With this new "can do" mentality - won't the next generation ignore all of the "only white people can do/have/know that" nonsense usually passed from one generation to the next?
Armed with this mentality and the proper preparation - won't the next generation be better off than those who chose to settle for the scraps given them by those they served?
You're a "can do" type of guy - who's actually capable of teaching young folks how to do things - but that's the exception, not the rule.
What is the operational (not motivational) import of images of folks who are products of an earlier generation's operational capabilities on the ground?
and
How can these images (role models) make up for the total absence of comparable operational capabilities on the ground in the communities in which the present generation lives and learns?
Okay, first I am just a visitor, and in such, I say to Cnu. Get that bullshit out of here.
ReplyDeleteI mean, all that purple prose to say what? I know you WERE NOT saying, within each of those timelines, the explostion of black pride, power, voice, leadership roles,etc, happened on a linear line?! I mean, come on my brotha? Brotha?
Did YOU actually read the post. imho, this was one of UGJ's most poignant posts. What did you read, really? Please, although I am just a vistor, please explain yourself. Cuz you got a brotha SMH.
Explain myself?
ReplyDeleteFuck you.
Yep, now you're making sense.
ReplyDeleteI mean, all that purple prose to say what? I know you WERE NOT saying, within each of those timelines, the explostion of black pride, power, voice, leadership roles,etc, happened on a linear line?! I mean, come on my brotha? Brotha?
ReplyDeleteThe focus on currently prevailing imagistic clout embodied in the fruit of a community which no longer exists - means to me that once these image bearers are gone - there aren't really any replacements or underlying replacement structures to replenish them.
The dialogue is complicated and it unfolds in parallel across multiple access points all known to uncle John.
I would've been far more inclined to call it "Game Over" rather than "The Game Has Changed" - but that's just me...,
"The focus on currently prevailing imagistic clout embodied in the fruit of a community which no longer exists - means to me that once these image bearers are gone - there aren't really any replacements or underlying replacement structures to replenish them"
ReplyDeleteFirst, that's not true. So the primise to your argument is flawed.
Therefore, you/we are chasing a ghost. I mean, if we are looking for solutions rather than talking points, lets look at your setup.
First, a "focus", can have the same duration (time of exitence) as some emotions. Some are instantaneous, and last for a few seconds, and of course, many can last a life time. Consequently, the word "focus" can be misleading.
In reference to Uncle Blacks post, I think it speaks more to a reflection, than a focus.
"I would've been far more inclined to call it "Game Over" rather than "The Game Has Changed"
Oh young man, the game is seldom over. The players just change.
My indifference to your opinion, speaks to that very point. An analogy: Picture a soft couch. some individuals do not like their couch or their new shoes, until they're broken in. Lets say, through various means, that mission is accomplished. Now, if they decided to abandon those items, someone could possibly occupy them with less discomfort than the previous owner. The new owner would not be required to "focus" very long on the impact of the preceding owners, in order to reap his reward. I mean, he can make them his, without the same discomforts. They've already left a deep impression. He does not have to focus on that... verrry looooong.
It's not complicated at all. However, we can make it so. And that's an old game that's never over. It's called being lead astray, lied to, hookwinked, bambozzled and fooled.
In this case the game IS actually over.
ReplyDeleteIn 1970 - men still controlled the core of our collective moral and cultural integrity - with an agency which we could uncompromisingly call "Black".
Like a hard sofa or an even harder shoe - one one hand we were stridently resisting immoral war in southeast asia - and on the other - we were stridently resisting disenfranchisement and officially sanctioned economic oppression here at home.
40 years later, we resist and challenge NOTHING - having become entirely soft, broken-in, and assimilated. Matter fact, the brand has been co-opted as the face of an unjust and immoral system of perpetration. The president is spending the last of our collective moral capital.
Meanwhile, over the past two generations, a catastrophic decline of fathers in the home has given rise to a generation of unschooled, undisciplined, and unmanful babyboys unprepared for much beyond becoming raw material fodder for the prison industrial complex.
The election and the administration of Obama signals to the world that we have "arrived" - however - what looks so good to us on the surface - masks a collective interior pathology that is infinitely less robust and capable than the collective world which originally gave rise to the president, to John, to you and to me.
What you see now is the triumphal end of an era with no resources or capacity for replenishment in store. For us as a "people" - the game has indeed changed, and it's over...,
It's not over until the fat lady sings.
ReplyDeleteYoung man, although you speak well, you have a propensity to rap your opinion/argument in falsehoods.
1970, <> "with an agency which we could uncompromisingly call "Black"
Sir, I do not know what you are implying, but the new day of the seventies, was a mere blink from the disturbing period of the sixties. Do you remember when being called black was considered slanderous? But that's a moot point. Yet, I agree, (or to further my point) hundreds of years prior to the seventies, the blacks was oppressed (and still are). However, the periods of change, were not of the same length. You can not deny the fact that overall, the oppurtunity for the black man to increase his stake in life, has increase 10 fold since his landing in America. More importantly, as I implid,that increase has seen quantum leaps in the last few decades. Teach one, leap one.
<...we were stridently"
Sir? "WE" stridently resisted war? I do not know how old you are, but back then, the majority of the nation was hookwinked into believing that war was necessary. So please, lets deal with facts. MLK was one of the few voices that opposed that war, and he drew heat from his own people. Negros and other races were still threatened by the words "communist", and in such, MLK was labled as one, to further the hate against him, and to continue the cruelties of an unjust war. So lets back up, while we're moving forward.
"40 years later, we resist and - having become entirely soft, broken-in, and assimilated. Matter fact, the brand has been co-opted as the face of an unjust and immoral system of perpetration. The president is spending the last of our collective moral capital"
My brother, now I see the root of your argument. But first, "challenge NOTHING"???
Sir, do you see the error in that statement?
You were doing okay with this..."over the past two generations, a catastrophic decline of fathers in the home has given rise to a generation of unschooled, undisciplined, and unmanful babyboys unprepared for much beyond becoming raw material fodder for the prison industrial complex"
Okay, I AGREE! And? And, who's fault is that? It's surely not Obama's! And I am not saying we are taking full advantage of our oppurtunities. However, you mindset/theory/concept, plays into the hands of the oppressor. Lost hope and less courage seems to be your battle cry. "Woe-is-us, it's all over". There's no solutions in that dark outlook. What, get rid of Obama? If not he, then who? Watch your step. Don't show your hold card!
Which leads me to the last of your "opinion".
"The election and the administration of Obama signals to the world that we have "arrived" - however - what looks so good to us on the surface - masks a collective interior pathology that is infinitely less robust and capable than the collective world"
My son, WHO said we have arrived?!
Furthermore, WHO said it looks good on the surface. Who are YOU talking for???
Listen, I am done. You're speaking in too many general terms. You seem to be stratifying yourself above the "common" black man, and then, speaking for them. That's a crucial mistake. I AM DONE!
Sir, I do not know what you are implying, but the new day of the seventies, was a mere blink from the disturbing period of the sixties. Do you remember when being called black was considered slanderous?
ReplyDeleteNope. Because I only ever remember calling myself Black - and remember very well how happy my parents were to stop calling themselves negro.
But that's a moot point. Yet, I agree, (or to further my point) hundreds of years prior to the seventies, the blacks was oppressed (and still are). However, the periods of change, were not of the same length. You can not deny the fact that overall, the oppurtunity for the black man to increase his stake in life, has increase 10 fold since his landing in America.
oh lord...., a happy negro.
if by "stake in life" you mean simple material consumption, well, that was certainly the case until 1975 after which real wages in the U.S. began a decline from which they've never recovered. One segment of the Black community seized the opportunities afforded by affirmative action and good government jobs, while another suffered the direct decline experienced by many, many others. (Detroit anyone?)
More importantly, as I implid,that increase has seen quantum leaps in the last few decades. Teach one, leap one.
“Inasmuch as you have done it for the least of My brothers, you have done it unto Me.”
Sir? "WE" stridently resisted war?
Yes. That's why we embed links - you click them and read - and voila - a magical world of information is opened to your consideration.
I do not know how old you are, but back then, the majority of the nation was hookwinked into believing that war was necessary. So please, lets deal with facts. MLK was one of the few voices that opposed that war, and he drew heat from his own people.
I'm 47.
MLK was assassinated for opposing the war.
Negros and other races were still threatened by the words "communist", and in such, MLK was labled as one, to further the hate against him, and to continue the cruelties of an unjust war. So lets back up, while we're moving forward.
Soldiers mutinied, Black Panthers brandished arms and served breakfasts, and the NOI ran restaurants serving whitefish and beanpies as an alternative to fried chicken and french fries all over the hood.
(continued)
ReplyDeleteThere's no solutions in that dark outlook. What, get rid of Obama? If not he, then who? Watch your step. Don't show your hold card!
I wouldn't trade Obama for anyone short of FDR.
That said, Obama is a brilliant corporate-centric president and probably not the people-centric leader that too many have invested their hopes in.
Let's put it this way, Obama is not going to say or do anything sufficiently non-conformist to get himself shot like MLK did.
My son, WHO said we have arrived?!
Furthermore, WHO said it looks good on the surface. Who are YOU talking for???
Listen, I am done. You're speaking in too many general terms. You seem to be stratifying yourself above the "common" black man, and then, speaking for them. That's a crucial mistake. I AM DONE!
Why all those shiny exemplars uncle John held up as game changing.
On that basis alone, you said so, and took great umbrage at my questioning that analysis. (warning Carey-Carey - nother link ahead - click it and read)
But I'm hardly alone in questioning this superficial evidence of "Game Changing" forward progress.
Oh, and I thought you were done the minute you started in on "purple prose" - but I was taught to stand my ground and simultaneously extend the benefit of the doubt until such doubt was no longer warranted.
As for my "stratification", I'm probably the first and only "Peak Oil/Collapse" brother you've ever encountered. That my world view encompasses a Peak Negro/Peak Blackness component would surely come as no surprise to uncle John, though based on your commentary Carey-Carey - it clearly shocks the pee out of you.
You know John, when our president was elected a few of us talked about just this. The fact that he could go a long way towards changing the negative perceptions that hundreds of years of bigotry and racial intolerence have built up. It's a positive thing all the way around. But not just him, think of Ali and Denzel and Jordan and Michael Jackson even Tiger Woods. Think of what's happened in the last 25 or 30 years. Our perception around the world is changing for the better every day. We may not see the subtle change.......but I know it's there.
ReplyDeleteBrother John....good site. I was rolling thru...thats rolling, not trolling.:) Being 59 and living through the times that were referenced...I think there were very few people that was for Viet Nam. We had the young whites that fled to Canada and many who got deferments to avoid war. It was nothing like today whereby we are constantly told that the military is "fighting for your freedoms-- as if some Iraqi or any mid-Easterner could have any dent in your freedoms. And surely the word "hero" was ever mentioned. That's the biggest con.. adorning them as heroes..maybe they will put themselves in harms way instead of the other war mongrels. Like today, the war was about selling arms and economy. Today every thing is analyses and generally we have two opposing sides justifying their positions. Back to subject...being a combat medic (1969-70, 159th Dust-off Cu Chi, Tay Ninh) I know the majority of Blacks there in Vietnam did not support the war. Now I could rattle on but its like ice creame.. you gotta lick it to know what it is. Now knowing how people get picked apart when we say 'all'...just find a Black or White veteran and ask him did he do it for patriotism or just to get back to America. Next on the chopping block I have placed my neck is in MY IDEA that the Black race wanted to be called Black...for those of us who came of age in the 50s and 60s many wanted to be called Black because that was the first time we (the then Negro) decided to pick our own name. We no longer responded to colored or Negro. There were some who was afraid to wear the Afro or any symbol of this new found unity in the struggle. Somebody tell me why you think African American came about. That was made in MMY IDEA due to fear on the part of the majority race seeing Blacks strating to exert power. Black Power I may add. So I know that Brother Obama is late to the game as far as showing the strong Black man... unfortunately the master will always put something in the game. Now he puts you all on TV but only in certain images. As long as you have /produce something he can relate to. one more thing if the masters had any good for you..he would support the family unit. One commentor hit it on the head. we now have a mass of people waiting for the directions of the "masters'. My race did not listen in the 60s to the ones who took them off their knees...Black boys listen to the man that wakes up with him daily....Sorry Mike.Sory Tig and the others. The masters controled your offsprings during slavery and now he continues. Wake up Black man. You will not let your son go to the slaughter.StillaPanther 66 til forever.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know Tamron Hall had fake boobs. Damn I'm losing my knack for boob identification. I got to get that back in order. LOL
ReplyDelete@ SeeNew - I had to start doing more work in order to SHO my young cousins (and their friends) that I actually can do work.
ReplyDeleteWith the imagery mentioned, my teachings, and a visible example - maybe they will come to understand that W.O.R.K. is the most important tool for ones success.
Maybe I failed in this post in asking the question,
"Would "Cosby" still be thought of as being too 'White' today?".
@ Larry - The hardest thing to do is to hire a good boss.
Most people are used to being employees but few have the initiatve to be a boss.
I had to get rid of a slew of employees because none could think for themselves - all they could do was wait for and then follow directions.
@ FreeMan - Living in Cali and you can't tell which boobs are fake?
Maybe you've been spending too much time in the ATL and have gotten out of practice.
@ Reggie - As long as the kids understand that racism is only an obstruction to be overcome and not the final determination, I think we will all be better off.
Uncle John, I was a faithful glimpse seeker of Lisa Bonet myself back in the day.
ReplyDeleteI don't recollect too many (any) instances in which Cliff or Claire demonstrated any kind of work or work ethic. I do recollect quite clearly their embodiment of an upper middle class values, taste, and consumption pattern - kind of a - "we're just like you America, love us" type ethos.
As for the newsreaders, talking heads, and politicos you used to exemplify the game change, do you suppose that what they do strikes most in the hood, trailer park, or little GI Bill cracker box ranch style house as work?
Ummm... well...no.
ReplyDeleteNot really.
But they may have an effect on the middle class.
The step from hood to doctor is huge - but the step from working class to doctor is more easily accomplished.
With these new models in the media (These types of families have always existed in real life.), maybe more middle class Blacks will stop seeing themselves as special beings and instead begin to see themselves as part of a larger whole.
As the middle class moves up to upper-middle calass - maybe some from the lower class will move up to the middle class until more Blacks see financial, spiritual and social success as a choice and not an illusion.
I think you are wrong about Tamryn having fake tiddies.
ReplyDelete@ DPizz - "In 2006, Hall decided to get breast implants..."
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamron_Hall
As the middle class moves up to upper-middle calass - maybe some from the lower class will move up to the middle class until more Blacks see financial, spiritual and social success as a choice and not an illusion.
ReplyDeleteyikes...,
Will and Jada Smith were on the Oprah show the other day, and there has been an ongoing dialog in this house since then concerning the "spiritual" representations made thereon.
I don't believe that anything even remotely approaching the term "spiritual" belongs in the discussion until and unless we return to the level of cultural atunement that Larry stopped by and validated upthread.
At absolute rock bottom best, the most aspirational objective that this post speaks to is the loss of Blackness and full assimilation to the narrative and operational requirements of the beast.
fake biddies and all...,
ReplyDeleteNah man...
ReplyDeleteYou can't 'stop being Black' unless you choose to detatch yourself from those who may have less and begin to see them as "other".
Any job could be seen as being a sellout but if one chooses to use his earnings to help those without doesn't that trump any perceived 'whiteness' of that job, house, car or clothing?
If you then teach your kids to be as creative, intellegent and self reliant as possible - doesn't this demonstrate the most traditional of Black ideology?
I guess I view Blackness (and have done so for some years now) thus;
ReplyDeleteThe same as the orthodox meaning of "church". Black is a communion of persons participating in the emergent interpersonal properties arising from our unique protective and developmental psychological adaptation and social configuration in America.
We are the only authentically aspirational Americans who by our resistance to nationally institutionalized evil - compelled folk to live up to the aspirational ideals codified in the Constitution.
Which is why I believe that the strident and violent opposition to the immoral and irrational war in Vietnam, and, the strident and explicit opposition to social injustice in the America at the height of the Black Panther Party movement were the zenith of cultural Blackness.
To the extent that we preserve our moral imperatives, we remain Black. To the extent that we assimilate into the beast and its foul, thieving, and murdering ways......, we become something other than and less than Black.
My view is simple.
Accept no substitutes.
If you then teach your kids to be as creative, intellegent and self reliant as possible - doesn't this demonstrate the most traditional of Black ideology?
ReplyDeleteA very big part of it, which is why I also found your imagistic exemplars off-putting..., but especially when you lay up under a knife for insertion of some fake tiddies, game over - you might as well tattoo 666 on your neck - cause ghetto pass revocation is a wrap at that juncture.
I judge that according to very simple and stringent criteria too, what would my grandmother have thought about it?
I wouldn't say that "we have arrived" - only that many more now see that they have a choice in how they choose to live their lives.
ReplyDeleteMany people can't imagine that which they haven't seen with their own eyes.
These examples are just a small sampling of what is out there.
Each person took a different route to a possition which most people would consider as being successful.
None are athletes nor entertainers (in the strctest sense).
Most would have been thought of as nerds.
Now the materialistic teachings of Oprah, the pandering of Steele, the percieved lack of effort in the Black community by Obama and the fake tiddies of Hall may be the required evils of keeping ones status.
@UBJ,
ReplyDeleteAccording to the source article referenced by the Wikipedia posting you referenced in regards to Tamryn's fake tiddies, it says she had a "breast lift". This is substantially different than implants, but probably still falls under the umbrella of fake, but does not involve any artificial parts. It's more like a face lift for the tiddies. However, this does explain why myself and at least one other of your commentors did not see any signs of fake tiddies. First, Tamryn doesn't really have any of the classic visible characteristics typically associated with fake tiddies. Additionally, it didn't make any sense that she would have implants. A woman of her build typically would have ample breast mass. An augmentation nonetheless, though a different kind of augmentation than the one typically thought of when described as "fake tiddies".