brohammas said - "Sure you can see a helping hand as condescending and slap it..."No, it's not that at all.
While many may see the advocacy of working to uplift Blacks as saying "Sit down whitey.",
what is really meant by those who seek this goal is "Step up Blackie.".
No one is saying (well a few are) that whites shouldn't assist in the goal of equality - only that much of the work has to be done by Blacks themselves.
Think of it as a baby first learning to walk.
If the parent keeps carrying the child, the child fails to develop the muscles necessary to support himself.
The parent may think he's helping the child,
but his actions are more of a deterrent to progress than they are any real assistance.
If the child falls or loses balance - usually only a slight nudge is all that's required to right the situation.
Personally, I have little or no use for race standards or qualifications in my daily life.
I hang around with whomever I deem to be worth being around.
Usually this is determined by who is better than me in what ever it is I am trying to do or learn.
Why is this?
Largely, it's because I don't feel hindered by an other's opinion of me.
I know that I am only as equal as I prove myself to be in any situation or by the cumulative value of my contributions to society.
With this self assurance, I am free to pursue whatever I wish without the onus of perception, racism or history.
I help whomever needs help (regardless of race) and accept help from whomever is offering (regardless of race) if the short term help doesn't outweigh the long term gain.
Being Pro-Black is not the same as being Anti-white.
I agree completely.
ReplyDeleteOne issue I have with those involved with "outreach" or any form of upliftment, is the tendency to give a man a fish. This is also probably at the root of why most of my efforts are directed toward youth.
I also have issue with white people thinking "black issues" are the sole responsability of black people... or "off limits" to them. That is why I blog and most of my posts are tailored with a white audience in mind. I think white people need to step up, stop thinking of the us vs. them status quo.
See this is where the issue really lies. I think UBJ did his best to tell you what I have to tell you bluntly.
ReplyDeleteIf the issue between Blacks and Whites is about slavery and overall lack of trust and no one actively seeks your help what makes you feel you need to offer it? Go help the Mexicans or the Polish or the Cambodians. Why is there this need to help Blacks on the part of Whites? If the majority of people believe you come to do harm what is it in your brain that makes you think they don't know what they are talking about? It comes across as arrogance and fakeness and that's why things are the way they are. No one wants to be white and adopt your ways and your thinking most people like who they are and want to build a society that they feel comfortable in that reflects their ways. Most whites come across so arrogant because they think White = Right and it doesn't. Just as the Japanese have their way and their culture different from whites here in the USA most Blacks want their own.
In essence HELP if you want to HELP but no one asked for your direction!
Contrary to popular belief most Nationalist Pro-Black people are not mad at whites because we simply don't care. All these atrocities are the past and we want to move on but we don't want white people's help as we think you are the source of the problem. In the world the white man is a meddler in non white people's affairs under the banner of Democracy, Capitalism or whatever cockamamie scheme and Black's here on the whole know that fact!
All anyone Black wants is things to be fair in the application of law and resources. What most whites can't get through their head is you are not family! We prefer to solve our own problems, build things our way and live our lives. We don't want to take part in the history that excludes every other race except whites. Doing for Self is not against any other group as much as it is US doing FOR US!
you are right, I wont get it through my head, and that is our fundamental differance.
ReplyDeleteI believe we are family.
Just like direct siblings, your not liking me, or vice versa, does not change that.
Well KUMBAYA my lord KUMBAYA! LOL!
ReplyDeleteAgain your Arrogance makes you think we are all part of the human family. We are not like siblings we are more like two different tribes. The lack of recognition of that fact sabotages all the good you try to do!
You enter the game saying since we are the same they should like what I like and if I was in their shoes I would want this done. Afterall we are all the same. NO we aren't and we have never been but keep on trying to show us the GREAT WHITE WAY!
Ahhhh, FreeMan. I knew the Kumbaya was coming and should have predicted the arrogance slam as well.
ReplyDeleteTo assume and accuse, that I think there are no differences between us, and that we all want the same thing, not only shows that you do not know me, but that you have not actually paid attention to the whole of what I write.
Classic case of seeing what I am and ignoring who I am.
Why not go help the Mexicans or someone else? Because we, you and I, have different goals. I want a better world for my daughters. By better I mean a place where they are afforded opportunity, are both self aware and self assured, and have to deal with less B.S. from people who look like either you or me.
How is that not my fight?
Look Brohammas - I am aware of why you do these things but it doesn't mean you're right in your approach.
ReplyDeleteFrom what you wrote in the past it seems like you are on a BLACK fact finding mission. You have stories of living in Atlanta amongst the Blacks and I know in Philly they are there. So one has to wonder before the family what was your goal? If your blog is about breaking down these issues where did this concern come from before the family? Obviously you have an opinion on another group so I'm wondering why?
If you want to make the world a better place for your family prepare your family for this world. They will have to deal with BS anyway and although Noble your fatherly protection and pro-activity will not mend the fence!
Arrogance - an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions.
So if you want to help people who didn't ask for your help what do you call it?
Presumptuous assumptions would include the assumption that all those to whom I reach out to haven’t asked. Not only are you and I different, but you and UBJ are as well, no monoliths here.
ReplyDeleteYou can question my motives, history, and methods, that is perfectly fair. But you seem to be arguing against white people in general, making assumptions about me and my approach, that are more applicable elsewhere.
If you are honestly wondering where my interest generated, I can answer that. I had little to no interest, a great lack of understanding, and absolutely no contact with black culture before moving to Atlanta. I did not choose to go to Atlanta, I was sent there. Once there I not only found a world completely unlike I had ever known, but had the lid blown off everything I thought I knew about the affect of the civil rights era, hip-hop, racist white people, afro centrism… and a whole bunch of non-race related things.
I did not intend to, or initially seek out this learning, I had a series of experiences and began to pay attention.
I learned about existing issues that I thought were historic, and realized that most all with a background similar to mine continue to operate in ignorance. I am not particularly unique in mind set or intelligence but I am unique in experience.
So when you say I am barging in to spread my great white way, a closer examination would show that the bulk of whom I target are already perfectly white. Perfectly white in their ignorance, and ignorance that if left alone grows, and will continue to grow, into all sorts of things like the far Christian right, Glenn Beckish attitudes, closet racists, or the simple resentful white folk who because of their lack of experience continue to misinterpret much of what they see and hear.
I do not speak for black people, but I do speak to white people. This coupled with the somewhat rare fact that I also speak to black people, actually gives me something to say.
I want there to be less racist white people. I know you don’t care a lick about me or “my people”, but would less racist white people be a problem for you? If you tell me people’s attitudes can’t change, you are dead wrong. I know they do.
Arrogant? Maybe a little, but no more than you.
@Brohammas - I don't disagree with you labeling me arrogant but I'm not trying to stand in as the mediator between races. I have worked, lived and played with white people but I don't take that experience and think I have insight into them. Like anyone else you are judged by your history and interaction whether you want to be in that group or not!
ReplyDeleteI understand you believe you stand in the gap between the ignorant whites and their growth which manifests with hate but they have been here and will be here. There's nothing new there and exposure to outside groups when there is a group mentality doesn't do much but introduce the idea that they may be wrong!
Really I don't hate nor have a issue with you as a man. I just don't agree with you a lot of the time. Just because we don't see eye to eye on topics doesn't mean I don't care about white people or you for being white. How about I'm indifferent but hate or not caring is too strong when really I don't worry about it at all.
How about I say "I do not speak for white people, but I speak to black people. This coupled with the somewhat rare fact that I also speak to white people, actually gives me something to say" - would that give me enough justification to assume the role of mediator?
I never said people's attitudes can't change I am just saying it is stupid for Black folk to wait for that shit to happen. A history of racism, mutilation and rape, exclusion and scientific experiments and the same people don't want to be considered evil? If Hitler can be evil then the forefathers of this country and their descendants who supported it are lumped in there too. All the way up to today who supported Blacks not voting, supported Jim Crow, support unequal application of the law and then sit back and say you're lazy.
I know not everyone is like that but I can say the same thing. Unlike you I live it while you just don't like to be labeled it.
Society at large doesn't want to be labeled as evil and stuck with that name. So just like any other person who is guilty they say so are you. The problem is no one is asking for white people to save the day it's just their guilt has them out there.
@ brohammas - At first I couldn't stand Tim Wise and the whole "White Guilt" malady.
ReplyDeleteBut then I realized that he wasn't talking to Black people to provide them excuses - he was talking to white people to have them take responsibility.
My experiences with whites is vastly different than most others.
My town was only 6% Black.
But my town's education level for Blacks was above the average of the town as a whole.
My town's average income for Blacks was equal to that of every other group.
The MLK buildings and streets were in really nice areas.
We were taught Black history all year long.
I never grew up thinking or seeing Blacks as inferior or getting the short end of the stick.
Sure, there were racial issues - but EVERYTHING wasn't a racial issue.
This didn't translate to other parts of the country.
Most people assumed that I could relate only to the hood.
Most people assumed that I'd be confused by their pretentious forms of SAE.
Most assumed that I didn't have as much as them or could do better than them.
I actually found it funny when the things people would brag about were things that were common to me.
But since I came came from the hood - what was different?
How could I get a larger part of the population to believe that this was possible for them too?